Author Topic: Abrupt throttle on / off  (Read 8622 times)

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Metnor

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Abrupt throttle on / off
« on: December 16, 2015, 12:06:20 PM »
I have a completely stock 2012 GSX 650F, Canadian version. Great bike but it has an abrupt transition between throttle on and off when you are in higher gears (most noticeable in 4th 5th and 6th) around 5000 rpm. Since this is a common city traffic rpm for me, it can get a bit annoying. If I am riding solo, I can operate at higher rpm but when riding with a passenger and I want to keep things smooth, this is annoying. Is this a common issue? can anything be done to smooth it out?

Thanks in advance

Glenn

bigalbi

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 05:56:41 PM »
I have fitted a O2 Eliminator on my 2011 650f for the same reason it also smooths the tickover, I think it makes it a richer mixture but we do not have our emissions tested at the moment in the UK.

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 06:17:03 PM »
I did a bit of research and it appears that the O2 eliminator feeds a simulated signal to the ECU so that it will add more fuel. Am I correct? Would this be a better approach than a DynoJet "Power Commander"? I was hoping to find a tuner in my area who could re-map the fuel curve and richen things up a bit in the rough spots. I'm not interested in hot-rodding the bike I just want to smooth it out a bit.

Glenn

Skip

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2015, 12:47:46 AM »
Because of the emissions laws now,  the O2 sensor is not being used to ensure that the fuel mix is the ideal stoichiometric 14.7-1, instead the ecu has been programmed to lean the mix. The thing is the simple 0-1 volt narrow band sensor is a very crude way of monitoring it, hence we get the surging at steady cruising and also the snatchy on off throttle response.

A better way of doing would be too use a wide band sensor system, but that would be more costly and the manufacturers aren't going to do it until they have to.  The O2 eliminator will feed a slighly lean signal to the ecu, and it responds by enrichening the mix. Only enough to improve ridability and issues people have had.

Also its worth remembering the ecu only refers to the O2 sensor when at idle and at steady state or low load. When accelerating any signals from the sensor are ignored and the ecu uses the stored fuelling maps. Which means it won't  go lean and blow holes in pistons etc.

If you're after a performance boost then have the power commander, often they use an elminator aswell.

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 03:00:35 PM »
Thanks for the explanations, I'm not looking for a HP increase (I'm too old for that) just an improvement in the low rpm smoothness. I don't want my wife falling off the back or clunking helmets.

Glenn

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 11:51:45 AM »
Mr. Big(albi)

I have found a few different O2 eliminators. Some plug type and some electronic types that generate a false signal to feed to the ECU. Which type did you use?

Glenn

PaterAnt

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 02:19:37 PM by PaterAnt »
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Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 06:28:08 PM »
Thanks for the help. I'll let you know the result in April. I hate winter.

Glenn

bigalbi

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sjrainsford

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 09:06:21 AM »
Doesn't the EFI generate a warning light when the sensor is eliminated using one of these devices?  Or are they not set up to worry about it?

Skip

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 02:27:20 PM »
The eliminator should send a false signal to the ECU, so as far as it's concerned nothing is amiss. If it was simply disconnected then yes it would most likely throw a fault

sjrainsford

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2016, 09:13:26 AM »
So has anyone on here got one of those basic ones and can say it doesn't throw an efi light?
Those simple plugs can't do a lot, there's no electronics per say. Just what looks to me like a resistor or similar.


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PaterAnt

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 09:24:29 AM »
So has anyone on here got one of those basic ones and can say it doesn't throw an efi light?
Those simple plugs can't do a lot, there's no electronics per say. Just what looks to me like a resistor or similar.


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I fitted one on mine. It works. Instant improvement. No efin light...  :laughing7:
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. 1973-2009: several Piaggio (mainly Vespa) scooters (oldest 1957 reg); 2009-11: 2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie; 03/11 to 12/15: GSX1250FA ST.
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sjrainsford

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2016, 08:30:53 AM »
So has anyone on here got one of those basic ones and can say it doesn't throw an efi light?
Those simple plugs can't do a lot, there's no electronics per say. Just what looks to me like a resistor or similar.


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I fitted one on mine. It works. Instant improvement. No efin light...  :laughing7:

For what they cost, I may give one a try when the weather starts to improve.  Although I can't say as I've found my 1250 bad, especially coming from a carbed Kawasaki Vulcan!

wolfie

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2016, 10:56:32 AM »
I fitted the one bigalbi posted the link to yesterday. The biggest problem is undoing the connector. Certainly no warnings on the dash.
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bigalbi

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2016, 03:46:46 PM »
I have also removed the sensor from the exhaust and put a blanking plug in to aid the flow of gases. Its a fairly big obstruction in the pipe.

Still Learning

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2016, 01:12:35 AM »
Does anyone have fitting instructions ?. Does the 650 need one ?

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wolfie

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 10:18:02 AM »
Do a search - there are instructions on here with pictures and everything.
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PaterAnt

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2016, 10:31:36 AM »
Do a search - there are instructions on here with pictures and everything.

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We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. 1973-2009: several Piaggio (mainly Vespa) scooters (oldest 1957 reg); 2009-11: 2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie; 03/11 to 12/15: GSX1250FA ST.
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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2016, 02:11:36 AM »
Does the 650 need one

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Skip

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2016, 11:06:56 AM »
That answer is purely subjective,  do you think it needs one?

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2016, 12:39:49 PM »
I ordered one EL-00005 Eliminator from DanMoto but it appears that the shipment has been sent by meandering global shipping methods and I have not been given any sort of reasonable delivery time expectation. Does anyone know of a better way to simply purchase one of these items in Canada? In my opinion there is nothing worse than paying up-front for something and then hoping that it will arrive. Worst of all, I have the bike in a state of disassembly to do a few maintenance items before the season starts and I don't want to put it back together until I install the o2 eliminator. It is supposed to be 15 degrees Celsius this weekend!!!!!

Glenn.

PaterAnt

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2016, 12:45:25 PM »
I ordered one EL-00005 Eliminator from DanMoto but it appears that the shipment has been sent by meandering global shipping methods and I have not been given any sort of reasonable delivery time expectation. Does anyone know of a better way to simply purchase one of these items in Canada? In my opinion there is nothing worse than paying up-front for something and then hoping that it will arrive. Worst of all, I have the bike in a state of disassembly to do a few maintenance items before the season starts and I don't want to put it back together until I install the o2 eliminator. It is supposed to be 15 degrees Celsius this weekend!!!!!

Glenn.
When it arrives it will be a 2 second job to fit and you only have to remove one panel.
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. 1973-2009: several Piaggio (mainly Vespa) scooters (oldest 1957 reg); 2009-11: 2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie; 03/11 to 12/15: GSX1250FA ST.
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Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2016, 12:23:20 PM »
 I got a response from DanMoto. It appears the item has disappeared and another is going to be shipped. It's strange that Danmoto has a US branch but they will not ship to Canada from there. We have one of the most open borders in the world (both physically and financially) and yet I have to order a $7.00 part from Hong Kong.

 On another topic, when I bought my bike, there were scuffs on the right side from either a stationary or very low speed tip-over. I buffed out most of the marks but there were scratches on the lower fairing panel that were deep. A shop near me agreed to sand and fill the scratches and do a colour matched vinyl wrap of the area. It wouldn't be perfect but the idea was that it would look like a black sticker on a black background and it would be invisible unless someone knew it was there. 3 months later, I had to drive to another shop to pick up my panels and then I discover that they have been painted, not wrapped. And now there's runs on them, and who knows how the colour match will be. It's a black bike but there certainly is more than one black. I hate poor craftsmanship!

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 04:39:17 PM »
I may have to start a separate DanMoto bashing thread. It appears that the second shipment from DanMoto has mysteriously disappeared during the transition from Hong Kong airmail to Canada Post. I looked at the DanMoto Hong Kong (HK) website and they appear to have dropped the part (EL-00005) I want from the HK menu, although it still appears on the US website. The US distributor does not publish their phone number, the Italian distributor appears to have gone out of business and a US dealer I called who is listed on the DanMoto US website has no knowledge of being a DanMoto distributor. Has anybody here actually ordered and received parts from this outfit or is it simply a hoax?

Glenn :angry4:

Lampie

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 06:57:21 PM »
My 2 cents...

do a throttle balance, works for me, and for 6 other bikes too.
Don't mess with the O2 sensor, that won't smooth out the on/off effect

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PaterAnt

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 09:57:53 PM »
My 2 cents...

do a throttle balance, works for me, and for 6 other bikes too.
Don't mess with the O2 sensor, that won't smooth out the on/off effect
The O2 sensor eliminator did exactly that on mine...
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. 1973-2009: several Piaggio (mainly Vespa) scooters (oldest 1957 reg); 2009-11: 2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie; 03/11 to 12/15: GSX1250FA ST.
Worcester

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2016, 11:05:05 AM »
"The O2 sensor eliminator did exactly that on mine..."

If you could only get your hands on one. :angry4:

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2016, 12:07:48 PM »
After two failed attempts to ship me an O2 sensor eliminator, DanMoto has given up and issued a refund to me. It seems to me that this is a flaky company at best. They would not attempt to use a more reliable shipping method and I have also noticed that the part number I wanted seems to have disappeared from their Hong Kong website. One has now been shipped to me from DanMoto USA by way of the eBay international shipping program. eBay acts as a broker, purchases from the supplier and takes care of the shipping, customs and payment by PayPal. Let's hope this is a bit more successful. On a brighter note, I went for my first ride of the season last night.

Glenn

Metnor

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Re: Abrupt throttle on / off
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 05:25:02 PM »
Yesterday I received my DanMoto O2 Sensor Eliminator. It came from DanMoto USA and was purchased through the eBay Global Shipping Program. Last night, I received sensor in the mail only to be disappointed again. They have now shipped me part number EL-00002 instead of EL-00005. I thought I ordered the wrong part but the eBay ad is still up and specifically states EL-00005. My rating of them just got lower still.

Glenn